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Johan爷谈1.3版本的雇佣兵机制修改法

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单独发的帖子,所以中文社区没有翻译,让我看看Johan又有哪些小巧思


IP属地:福建1楼2026-06-02 17:48回复
    第一部分
    One of the biggest complaints in 1.2 is that the AI is decent at snowballing its economy, and runs out of things to spend money on, and accumulates huge amounts of gold. Well, technically, that is not bad in itself..
    1.2 版本最大的诟病之一就是 AI 经济滚雪球式增长能力太强,很快就会无处可花,从而积累大量黄金。嗯,从技术层面来说,这本身倒也无可厚非……
    What makes it bad is that it means that when the player goes to war with them, they go “yeah, we can burn half our gold on as many mercenaries as we need.” And as we all know, quantity has a quality of its own, so that means as many as they can afford, because it's better to keep your land and 1 gold, than get annexed and have the enemy get your gold as well.
    糟糕的是,这意味着当玩家与他们开战时,他们会想:“是啊,我们可以把一半的金币都花在雇佣兵身上,想买多少就买多少。” 我们都知道,数量本身就是一种质量,所以这意味着他们会尽可能多地雇佣雇佣兵,因为保住自己的土地和1金币总比被吞并,还要眼睁睁看着金币落入敌人手中要好得多。
    Of course this does not make it enjoyable to many players, so how do we make it more fun?
    当然,这会让很多玩家觉得不好玩,那么我们该如何让它更有趣呢?
    As with everything in life, it is all down to the economy. Well, not entirely, but that helps a lot. You may have noticed that a lot of the stuff we mentioned in Tinto Talks #110 touched on the economy, which affects everything. Our goal is to keep improving it so that snowballing is harder, and the economy feels more diverse and rewarding. If it takes longer and is harder to get rich, we avoid the accumulation of gold for the AI.
    就像生活中的一切一样,一切都取决于经济。当然,并非完全如此,但经济因素影响很大。您可能已经注意到,我们在 Tinto Talks #110 中提到的很多内容都与经济有关,而经济影响着一切。我们的目标是不断改进经济,让滚雪球效应难以实现,并让经济更加多元化、更具吸引力。如果致富需要更长时间、更艰难,我们就能避免人工智能积累黄金。
    However, it's not just about tweaking the economy, there are also other things that have been done to the 1.3 update in the last few months that are mercenary related.
    然而,这不仅仅是调整经济系统的问题,在过去的几个月里,1.3 版本更新还进行了一些与雇佣兵相关的其他改动。


    IP属地:福建2楼2026-06-02 17:50
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      2026-06-08 05:36:17
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      第二部分:
      We increased the cost for hiring mercenaries by 33% compared to the 1.2 update.
      与 1.2 版本更新相比,我们将雇佣雇佣兵的成本提高了 33%。
      Mercenaries stuck in high attrition for two months may abandon their contracts.
      雇佣兵如果连续两个月处于高损耗状态,可能会放弃合同。
      Reduced AI overspending on mercenaries due to not taking account the cost of already hired ones
      减少了人工智能在雇佣兵上的过度支出,因为没有考虑到已雇佣雇佣兵的成本。
      I’ve also seen some comments on “AI creates mercenaries from thin air”. It’s not true, as some of you are aware, as it has been a recurring complaint since launch about “why does my pops leave to become mercenaries”.
      我也看到一些关于“AI 凭空创造出雇佣兵”的评论。这并不属实,正如你们中的一些人所知,因为“为什么我的人口会离开去当雇佣兵”这个问题从游戏上线以来就一直存在。
      So lets dive in how mercenaries actually work.
      那么,让我们深入了解一下雇佣兵的实际运作方式。
      When you open the Hire Mercenary UI in a region, the companies you see for sale are not summoned out of thin air. The game pulls real bodies out of the local population, ops are physically removed from the affected locations and labeled as having "left to become mercenaries" on the pop-change breakdown.
      当你在某个区域打开雇佣兵界面时,你看到的待售公司并非凭空出现。游戏会从当地居民中抽调真实的雇佣兵,将他们从受影响的地点移除,并在人口变动明细中标记为“已离开成为雇佣兵”。
      This applies only to the "open market" mercs you see in the hire list. Three other kinds of mercs exist, prisoner companies after a won battle, your own units flipped to mercenary status to hire out, allies lending them out, but only the open-market kind takes them from pops, as the others are actual units that have been recruited from soldier pops.
      这仅适用于你在雇佣列表中看到的“公开市场”雇佣兵。还有其他三种雇佣兵:战败后俘虏的部队、你方转为雇佣兵的部队、盟友借调的部队,但只有公开市场的雇佣兵是从民众中招募的,其他类型的雇佣兵都是从士兵中招募的实际部队。
      Every mercenary subunit type declares which pops it recruits from. Some examples include, crossbowmen drains from 10% of laborers, falconets 5% of burghers, etc.. This creates a lot of variety in the mercenaries.
      每种雇佣兵亚单位都会明确说明其招募来源的人口类型。例如,弩兵从10%的劳工中招募,飞镖兵从5%的市民中招募,等等。这使得雇佣兵种类繁多。


      IP属地:福建3楼2026-06-02 17:51
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        第三部分
        Mercenaries don’t instantly refill. The maximum theoretical company size in an area is pops x proportion x modifiers, but that is over time, as it takes them up to 20 years to refill lost pops in their mercenary armies. Razing and conquest don't just hit pops, they also gut your future mercenary recruitment in that area, because the pool ceiling is recomputed from current population every tick.
        雇佣兵不会立即补充。理论上,一个地区雇佣兵的最大规模为人口数 x 比例 x 修正值,但这需要时间,因为雇佣兵需要长达 20 年的时间才能补充损失的人口。劫掠和征服不仅会减少人口,还会严重影响该地区未来的雇佣兵招募,因为雇佣兵的上限会根据当前人口数每回合重新计算。
        What this means in practice: if you hire out an area's entire mercenary pool right now, the lower-grade slots will come back within a year or two, but the full roster won't be available again for two decades, and if the population has been reduced, they may not be able to have as big a source again.
        实际上这意味着:如果你现在雇佣一个地区的所有雇佣兵,低等级的职位会在一两年内重新开放,但完整的雇佣兵名单要二十年内都无法再次开放,而且如果人口减少,他们可能就无法再次拥有如此庞大的雇佣兵来源。
        So lets say, Wars that lean heavily on Italian condottieri do exhaust Italy. Players who repeatedly cycle through the same recruitment region notice the company sizes and unit-type variety shrinking over the campaign. This is intentional.
        也就是说,过度依赖意大利雇佣兵的战争会耗尽意大利的兵力。反复在同一招募区域作战的玩家会发现,随着战役的进行,连队规模和部队类型都会逐渐减少。这是有意为之。
        So what makes your pops become mercenaries? Well, negative stability increases it dramatically, while control decreases it.
        那么,是什么让你的民众沦为雇佣兵呢?负稳定度会显著增加这种现象,而控制度则会降低这种现象。
        Cheerio, do you guys want another quick “what are tinto doing about X, feel free to ask”
        大家好,你们还想听听“Tinto针对 某问题采取了哪些措施?欢迎提问”吗?


        IP属地:福建4楼2026-06-02 17:51
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          下面是QA部分
          1.
          问:Thank you for the information. There is more problems to the mercenary system - especially the ease of use for the player:感谢您提供的信息。佣兵系统还有更多问题——尤其是对玩家而言不够易用:
          View attachment 1508585查看附件 1508585
          This menu is horrible. I have to manually enter every single area to get any viable filter as the list consist of more than a hundred companies (it actually causes fps loss) and hiring is also horrible as I have to adjust the contract length and unit composition of every company individually and I usually want to hire a dozen at a time - because why not.这个菜单简直糟糕透了。我必须手动输入每个区域才能筛选出有效的公司,因为列表里有超过一百家公司(这实际上会导致帧率下降)。招聘也很糟糕,因为我必须单独调整每家公司的合同期限和人员构成,而我通常想一次招十几名员工——为什么不呢?
          ————
          Johan答
          Yes, I don't like it very much. its one thing in singleplayer when you can pause and just sit there, but in multiplayer is a hassle to deal with.是的,我不太喜欢这样。单人游戏里可以随时暂停,什么都不用做,这还好,但多人游戏里处理起来就很麻烦。
          However, as in everything in life, its a priorities question.然而,就像生活中所有事情一样,这是一个优先顺序的问题。
          Performance is likely to get fixed as soon as the performance programmers gets to optimize that screen.. but a rework is judged against "what other UI issues do we have and how important are them."性能问题很可能在性能程序员优化该屏幕后得到解决……但是否需要重做则取决于“我们还有哪些其他 UI 问题以及它们的重要性”。


          IP属地:福建5楼2026-06-02 17:53
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            2.
            问:
            What about industrial revolution hitting in renaissance and everyone running out of peasants?如果工业革命发生在文艺复兴时期,导致农民短缺,那会怎么样?
            答:
            yeah, the economy grow is supposed to be more an age of discoveries thing.. but we have been tweaking the economy snowball a lot for 1.3是的,经济增长本应更多地体现在发现时代……但我们在1.3版本中对经济增长曲线进行了多次调整。


            IP属地:福建6楼2026-06-02 17:53
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              3.
              问:
              Thank you Johan! This is great.谢谢你,约翰!太好了。
              Yes the economy snowballing is a problem!是的,经济雪球效应确实是个问题!
              please read this and consider removing RGO levels. And instead tie RGO production to peasant population. I think it would be the ultimate fix for economic snowballing.请阅读此文并考虑移除 RGO 等级。改为将 RGO 产量与农民人口挂钩。我认为这将是解决经济滚雪球效应的根本方案。
              答:
              That is a huge rework that would not necessily fix the issue either.那是一项巨大的改动,而且也未必能解决问题。


              IP属地:福建7楼2026-06-02 17:54
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                4.
                问:I guess this could be modelled in game by inverting the recruitment logic. Rather than companies pulling pops out their homes, the pops decide for themselves. The chances for pop to "try their luck as a mercenary" should be determined by things like current satisfaction, overpopulation, employment rate and devastation. This pool of recruits then replenishes the ranks of existing companies and/or creates new ones. Not only is this more historically realistic and intuitive, it should also lead to better gameplay.我想这可以通过反转招募逻辑在游戏中模拟出来。不再是公司从居民家中强行征召,而是居民自己决定是否加入雇佣兵队伍。居民“尝试成为雇佣兵”的几率应该取决于诸如当前社会满意度、人口过剩、就业率和灾难程度等因素。这些新兵可以补充现有公司的队伍,或者组建新的公司。这不仅更符合历史实际情况,也更符合玩家的直觉,而且应该也能带来更好的游戏体验。
                答:thats technically the same, but the amount can be based on those values instead.从技术上讲,这是一样的,但金额可以基于这些数值来计算。
                adding it fix for 1.3 next time I have time to code this weekend下次我有时间写代码的时候,会在 1.3 版本中添加这个修复。


                IP属地:福建8楼2026-06-02 17:54
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                  2026-06-08 05:30:17
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                  5.
                  问:The economy growth is one thing and unrealistic demographics is the other. In all my games laborers become the biggest or the second biggest group in my country which feels very odd. Shouldn't buildings, RGOs and infrastructure hire less labourers?经济增长是一回事,不切实际的人口结构又是另一回事。在我玩的所有游戏中,劳动力都成了国家中最大的群体或第二大群体,这感觉非常奇怪。建筑、资源开发和基础设施难道不应该减少对劳动力的需求吗?
                  答:laborers and peasants are the "same"劳动者和农民是“同一类人”。
                  we just divided them to slow down economic growth我们把它们分开只是为了减缓经济增长。


                  IP属地:福建9楼2026-06-02 17:55
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                    6.
                    问:Also, could we please have more discussion threads like this one in the future? Being able to ask questions directly and receive live responses from the development team is extremely valuable, even when people may disagree on specific topics.另外,我们以后能否多开一些类似的讨论帖?能够直接提问并获得开发团队的实时回复非常有价值,即使大家对某些具体问题可能持有不同意见。
                    答:The idea is that when we start the 1.3 open beta that we will have "hopefully daily"-threas on some relevant topics.我们的想法是,当我们开始 1.3 公开测试版时,我们将“希望每天都”发布一些相关主题的威胁信息。


                    IP属地:福建10楼2026-06-02 17:55
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                      7.
                      问:We really need to have less of that我们真的需要减少这种情况。
                      答:why? the merc getting manpower from pops every month is something below 0.01% of the cost of the monthly tick.为什么?雇佣兵每月从人口中获取的人力不到每月成本的 0.01%。


                      IP属地:福建11楼2026-06-02 17:55
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                        8.
                        问:What will you do to shift the focus of economy in the game from "urhanize as much as you can" to "being mostly rural is viable and in many situations beneficial"? The game focuses greatly on urbanization, which as we know leads to problems.你会如何转变游戏中的经济重心,从“尽可能城市化”转向“保持以农村为主的模式是可行的,而且在很多情况下是有益的”?游戏目前过于注重城市化,而我们都知道,城市化会带来很多问题。
                        答:yeah, this is a balancing thing. I got lots of ideas for "systems" to hook in there, but we are in a "fix as many bugs as possible and improve performance" stage at the moment. You saw how many got upset about creditworthiness, and it will be the same for every system introduced.是的,这需要权衡。我有很多关于如何整合“系统”的想法,但目前我们正处于“尽可能修复漏洞并提升性能”的阶段。你也看到了,很多人对信用评级系统感到不满,而每引入一个新系统,都会出现同样的情况。


                        IP属地:福建12楼2026-06-02 17:56
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                          9.
                          问:Yeah! How about the long term plans for complacency? Its arguably the least popular mechanic in the game. Will it get a rework? A removal?没错!那么针对“自满情绪”的长期应对计划呢?这可以说是游戏中玩家最不受欢迎的机制了。它会被重做吗?还是会被移除?
                          答:I am working on a design for a unified golden/dark age system atm, and I want to get rid of complacency and have a way where you can aim to achieve a golden age, but if you play badly you end up in a dark age.我目前正在设计一个统一的黄金/黑暗时代系统,我想消除玩家的自满情绪,并提供一种可以努力实现黄金时代的方法,但如果你玩得不好,最终就会进入黑暗时代。
                          Golden ages were gamey but fun in eu4.黄金时代在欧陆风云4中虽然有点游戏性,但很有趣。


                          IP属地:福建13楼2026-06-02 17:57
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                            IP属地:上海来自Android客户端14楼2026-06-02 18:11
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                              2026-06-08 05:24:17
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                              脚汗依旧没有意识到是现在雇佣兵供给太过充足,设定占人口比例过高且正常情况下无法雇完,所有雇佣兵的雇佣价格-70%导致的当下雇佣兵为王问题
                              毕竟他自满值已经爆了,看不见了


                              IP属地:上海来自Android客户端15楼2026-06-02 19:09
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