杰克吉伦哈尔吧 关注：24,562贴子：218,422
不感兴趣
开通SVIP免广告
by Joe UtichiDecember 16, 2017 8:30am
When Jeff Bauman set out to cheer on his fiancée at the finish line of the Boston Marathon on the morning of April 15, 2013, he couldn’t have imagined the way his life would change when he was caught up in the terrorist attacks that day. When the bombs exploded he lost both his legs in the blast and was captured in a striking photograph being evacuated from the scene. That photograph, and Bauman’s relentless road to recovery, came to typify the “Boston Strong” attitude in the wake of the attacks. For Jake Gyllenhaal, playing Bauman in David Gordon Green’s Stronger could not have been more meaningful a role.
2013年4月15日上午的波士顿马拉松赛上，当Jeff Bauman的未婚妻在终点线为他开始欢呼时，那一天他被卷入恐怖袭击，他无法想象他的生活方式会改变。炸弹爆炸，他在爆炸中失去了双腿，并在一张令人震惊的照片中被捕捉到从现场撤离。那张照片，开始了鲍曼的无情的复苏之路，在袭击之后成为了代表“波士顿坚强”的态度。对杰克吉伦哈尔来说，没有比在David Gordon Green的“Stronger”中扮演鲍曼这更有意义的角色了。
When Jeff Bauman set out to cheer on his fiancée at the finish line of the Boston Marathon on the morning of April 15, 2013, he couldn’t have imagined the way his life would change when he was caught up in the terrorist attacks that day. When the bombs exploded he lost both his legs in the blast and was captured in a striking photograph being evacuated from the scene. That photograph, and Bauman’s relentless road to recovery, came to typify the “Boston Strong” attitude in the wake of the attacks. For Jake Gyllenhaal, playing Bauman in David Gordon Green’s Stronger could not have been more meaningful a role.
2013年4月15日上午的波士顿马拉松赛上，当Jeff Bauman的未婚妻在终点线为他开始欢呼时，那一天他被卷入恐怖袭击，他无法想象他的生活方式会改变。炸弹爆炸，他在爆炸中失去了双腿，并在一张令人震惊的照片中被捕捉到从现场撤离。那张照片，开始了鲍曼的无情的复苏之路，在袭击之后成为了代表“波士顿坚强”的态度。对杰克吉伦哈尔来说，没有比在David Gordon Green的“Stronger”中扮演鲍曼这更有意义的角色了。
问：How did you hear about this story?
你是怎么听说这个故事的
答：I only knew about him from a photograph. From that photograph. I didn’t even really know his name very well. The story had been brought to my attention. I was sent a very early draft, and I just loved the character. Somehow, Jeff’s spirit just came through, and there were a lot of qualities to him that I didn’t expect. I called up Eric Feig at Lionsgate and said, “Hey, I would love to do this.” He found David Gordon Green, and David came back to me and said, “I’d love you to do it.” It’s been a long journey from there; I brought the film to Bold Films, who finances my production company, and all of a sudden we were producing it too. So I haven’t slept for two years. I’m reading this story, then meeting Jeff, and wanting to be involved on a really core, rudimentary level. It has become this child of mine.
我只从照片上知道他。从那张照片上。我甚至都不知道他的名字。这个故事引起了我的注意。我收到了一份很早的草稿，很喜欢这个角色。不知怎的，杰夫的精神刚刚出现，他有许多我没想到的品质。我打电话给Eric Feig，说：“嘿，我很乐意这样做。”他找到David Gordon Green，并且戴维回来对我说，“我希望你做这件事”。从这开始会有一个漫长的旅途；我要出大胆的电影，谁资助我的公司制作，突然间我们都制作过了。所以我已经两年没睡觉了。我在读这个故事，然后和杰夫会面，希望参与到一个真正的核心层面。它已经成为我的孩子了。
你是怎么听说这个故事的
答：I only knew about him from a photograph. From that photograph. I didn’t even really know his name very well. The story had been brought to my attention. I was sent a very early draft, and I just loved the character. Somehow, Jeff’s spirit just came through, and there were a lot of qualities to him that I didn’t expect. I called up Eric Feig at Lionsgate and said, “Hey, I would love to do this.” He found David Gordon Green, and David came back to me and said, “I’d love you to do it.” It’s been a long journey from there; I brought the film to Bold Films, who finances my production company, and all of a sudden we were producing it too. So I haven’t slept for two years. I’m reading this story, then meeting Jeff, and wanting to be involved on a really core, rudimentary level. It has become this child of mine.
我只从照片上知道他。从那张照片上。我甚至都不知道他的名字。这个故事引起了我的注意。我收到了一份很早的草稿，很喜欢这个角色。不知怎的，杰夫的精神刚刚出现，他有许多我没想到的品质。我打电话给Eric Feig，说：“嘿，我很乐意这样做。”他找到David Gordon Green，并且戴维回来对我说，“我希望你做这件事”。从这开始会有一个漫长的旅途；我要出大胆的电影，谁资助我的公司制作，突然间我们都制作过了。所以我已经两年没睡觉了。我在读这个故事，然后和杰夫会面，希望参与到一个真正的核心层面。它已经成为我的孩子了。
问：Jeff’s story is so remarkable, it can’t be hard to find reasons to persist in setting it up.
杰夫的故事是如此的引人注目，很难找到（让人）坚持下去的理由。
答：It doesn’t stop. Any time there’s a moment where it feels like you’ve pushed as hard as you can and there’s nowhere left to go, you keep pushing. I think it pushed itself, and it continues to. It’s a story I care so much about, and when I see people’s reactions to it, it makes it worth it. If I could hold a cardboard sign outside and say, “See this movie,” I would.
它不会停止。任何时候只要有一刻，你觉得你尽可能的努力，没有地方可去，你就会继续努力。我认为它推动了自己，它在继续。这是一个我非常关心的故事，当我看到人们对它的反应时，（觉得）它是值得的。如果我能在外面拿一块纸板签字，说：“看这部电影”，我会（这么做）。
And a lot of that has to do with Jeff, giving me shit and telling me how absurd my job is, but at the same time also showing me that you have to fight for the things you believe in.
很多事情和杰夫有关，给了我很多麻烦，告诉我我的工作有多么荒谬，但同时也告诉我你必须为你所信仰的东西而战
杰夫的故事是如此的引人注目，很难找到（让人）坚持下去的理由。
答：It doesn’t stop. Any time there’s a moment where it feels like you’ve pushed as hard as you can and there’s nowhere left to go, you keep pushing. I think it pushed itself, and it continues to. It’s a story I care so much about, and when I see people’s reactions to it, it makes it worth it. If I could hold a cardboard sign outside and say, “See this movie,” I would.
它不会停止。任何时候只要有一刻，你觉得你尽可能的努力，没有地方可去，你就会继续努力。我认为它推动了自己，它在继续。这是一个我非常关心的故事，当我看到人们对它的反应时，（觉得）它是值得的。如果我能在外面拿一块纸板签字，说：“看这部电影”，我会（这么做）。
And a lot of that has to do with Jeff, giving me shit and telling me how absurd my job is, but at the same time also showing me that you have to fight for the things you believe in.
很多事情和杰夫有关，给了我很多麻烦，告诉我我的工作有多么荒谬，但同时也告诉我你必须为你所信仰的东西而战
问：How involved was he?
他是怎么参与的?
答：He was involved in the pre-production process and in much of the early stages, and he was always there and reachable and communicative throughout shooting. But when we started to shoot, he really wasn’t there that much. He did the first day, and then after that, not much at all. David and I, and Todd Lieberman and Riva Marker, were all in contact with him through it. Getting information from him, talking to his family. We were all pretty close. So it never felt like he wasn’t involved. It just felt like he was giving us the creative space.
他参与了前期制作过程，并在早期的大部分阶段，他总是在那里，在整个拍摄过程中都会有接触和交流。但是当我们开始拍摄的时候，他真的没有在那里那么多。他第一天就做了，之后就没那么多了。我和戴维、Todd Lieberman和Riva Marker，都和他联系过。从他那里得到信息，和他的家人交谈。我们都很亲密。所以从来没有觉得他没有参与。只是觉得他给了我们创造性的空间。
他是怎么参与的?
答：He was involved in the pre-production process and in much of the early stages, and he was always there and reachable and communicative throughout shooting. But when we started to shoot, he really wasn’t there that much. He did the first day, and then after that, not much at all. David and I, and Todd Lieberman and Riva Marker, were all in contact with him through it. Getting information from him, talking to his family. We were all pretty close. So it never felt like he wasn’t involved. It just felt like he was giving us the creative space.
他参与了前期制作过程，并在早期的大部分阶段，他总是在那里，在整个拍摄过程中都会有接触和交流。但是当我们开始拍摄的时候，他真的没有在那里那么多。他第一天就做了，之后就没那么多了。我和戴维、Todd Lieberman和Riva Marker，都和他联系过。从他那里得到信息，和他的家人交谈。我们都很亲密。所以从来没有觉得他没有参与。只是觉得他给了我们创造性的空间。
问：It must be odd for him to see the darker sides of his journey re-enacted.
对他来说，看到他的旅途中黑暗的一面重新上演，一定很奇怪。
答：It’s a strange thing to process, and it was for us too. This event wasn’t a decade away, it was only a couple of years away. When he first saw the movie, all I got from him was a sense that he was like, “Good job.” And then I didn’t really hear from him for over a week. And he told me that he went home and he just was so overwhelmed that he fell asleep. And then he woke up the next day reeling about it, and I think what we sensed was it was him reeling about all of the things he had done in ignoring his emotional pain and not listening to advice, or not wanting to listen to advice.
这是一件奇怪的事情，也是我们的事。这件事还不到十年的时间，只剩下几年了。当他第一次看这部电影的时候，我从他身上得到的只是一种感觉：“干得好”，然后我一个多星期没有听到他的消息了。他告诉我他回家了，他太累了，睡着了。第二天他醒过来时，他感到很震惊，我想，我们所感觉到的是他对他所做的一切事情都感到震惊，因为他忽略了他的痛苦情绪并且不听劝告，或者不愿意听建议。
I think his struggle to try and hold on to the old Jeff, and not face the loss—which I feel like any of us can understand in many different forms—was really what he was trying to figure out.
我认为他努力尝试和抓住老杰夫，而不是面对失去，我觉得我们每个人都能理解很多不同的形式，这正是他真正想弄明白的
对他来说，看到他的旅途中黑暗的一面重新上演，一定很奇怪。
答：It’s a strange thing to process, and it was for us too. This event wasn’t a decade away, it was only a couple of years away. When he first saw the movie, all I got from him was a sense that he was like, “Good job.” And then I didn’t really hear from him for over a week. And he told me that he went home and he just was so overwhelmed that he fell asleep. And then he woke up the next day reeling about it, and I think what we sensed was it was him reeling about all of the things he had done in ignoring his emotional pain and not listening to advice, or not wanting to listen to advice.
这是一件奇怪的事情，也是我们的事。这件事还不到十年的时间，只剩下几年了。当他第一次看这部电影的时候，我从他身上得到的只是一种感觉：“干得好”，然后我一个多星期没有听到他的消息了。他告诉我他回家了，他太累了，睡着了。第二天他醒过来时，他感到很震惊，我想，我们所感觉到的是他对他所做的一切事情都感到震惊，因为他忽略了他的痛苦情绪并且不听劝告，或者不愿意听建议。
I think his struggle to try and hold on to the old Jeff, and not face the loss—which I feel like any of us can understand in many different forms—was really what he was trying to figure out.
我认为他努力尝试和抓住老杰夫，而不是面对失去，我觉得我们每个人都能理解很多不同的形式，这正是他真正想弄明白的
问：He watched the movie again at Toronto, this time with an enormous audience.
他又一次在多伦多看了这部电影，这次是有很多观众。
答：I was so nervous about that screening, because I hadn’t seen the film with him yet. You are faced with your own fraudulence, you know? And you’re faced with all the caring that you put into something, hoping that somehow it would live up to expectations. The moment for me that I will never forget my entire life is at the end of the movie, the spotlight came up on Jeff, and he turned to me and said, “What do I do?” And I was like, “Stand up!” He stood up, and just the act of him standing up, and then 2,800 people realizing how much effort it took for him to stand up, and then them all standing up with him… I feel like that’s why you make movies. There have been so many moments like that along the way for him.
我对放映太紧张了，因为我还没看过这部电影。你面对自己的欺骗，你知道吗？你面对的是你对某件事情的关心，希望它能达到预期的效果。对我来说，我永远不会忘记我的整个人生是在电影的结尾，聚光灯出现在杰夫身上，他转向我说：“我该怎么办？”而我就像，“站起来！” 他站了起来，只是站起来的动作，然后2800个人意识到他站起来需要多少努力，然后他们都站起来和他站在一起……我觉得这就是为什么你拍电影的原因。在他的路上有很多这样的时刻。
And in the end, the thing that makes him so wonderful is that it’s really not what he cares about. He really does care about people seeing the movie, and he cares about the story, but ultimately, all he cares about is his daughter and his friends, and he’s a good friend. And I think you can feel that when you’re with him.
最后，让他如此奇妙的是，这不是他所关心的。他真的很在乎看电影的人，他关心这个故事，但最终，他只关心他的女儿和他的朋友，他是一个好朋友。我想当你和他在一起的时候你能感觉得到。
他又一次在多伦多看了这部电影，这次是有很多观众。
答：I was so nervous about that screening, because I hadn’t seen the film with him yet. You are faced with your own fraudulence, you know? And you’re faced with all the caring that you put into something, hoping that somehow it would live up to expectations. The moment for me that I will never forget my entire life is at the end of the movie, the spotlight came up on Jeff, and he turned to me and said, “What do I do?” And I was like, “Stand up!” He stood up, and just the act of him standing up, and then 2,800 people realizing how much effort it took for him to stand up, and then them all standing up with him… I feel like that’s why you make movies. There have been so many moments like that along the way for him.
我对放映太紧张了，因为我还没看过这部电影。你面对自己的欺骗，你知道吗？你面对的是你对某件事情的关心，希望它能达到预期的效果。对我来说，我永远不会忘记我的整个人生是在电影的结尾，聚光灯出现在杰夫身上，他转向我说：“我该怎么办？”而我就像，“站起来！” 他站了起来，只是站起来的动作，然后2800个人意识到他站起来需要多少努力，然后他们都站起来和他站在一起……我觉得这就是为什么你拍电影的原因。在他的路上有很多这样的时刻。
And in the end, the thing that makes him so wonderful is that it’s really not what he cares about. He really does care about people seeing the movie, and he cares about the story, but ultimately, all he cares about is his daughter and his friends, and he’s a good friend. And I think you can feel that when you’re with him.
最后，让他如此奇妙的是，这不是他所关心的。他真的很在乎看电影的人，他关心这个故事，但最终，他只关心他的女儿和他的朋友，他是一个好朋友。我想当你和他在一起的时候你能感觉得到。
不感兴趣
开通SVIP免广告
he wishes someone better looking had played him.
我敢打赌，他会开玩笑说，他希望能有一个更好的人来扮演他。
答：That’s a joke he always says. You know, I think the most interesting thing about all of this is the essence of a human being. What do they carry? I know I would never get that haircut of his in a million years [laughs].
他总是说那是个笑话。你知道，我认为最有趣的是一个人的本性。他们代表什么？我知道一百万年后都不会剪他的发型。
我敢打赌，他会开玩笑说，他希望能有一个更好的人来扮演他。
答：That’s a joke he always says. You know, I think the most interesting thing about all of this is the essence of a human being. What do they carry? I know I would never get that haircut of his in a million years [laughs].
他总是说那是个笑话。你知道，我认为最有趣的是一个人的本性。他们代表什么？我知道一百万年后都不会剪他的发型。
问：The movie is also very honest about the struggle Jeff had with the “Boston Strong” label, when in moments he didn’t feel he had the strength.
这部电影也非常诚实的讲述了杰夫的斗争与“波士顿坚强”的标签，当他不觉得自己有实力的时候。
答：The process of the making of the movie was always that question. Always the question of how much is this moment full of hope, how much is this moment painful? What was really happening here? What do we wish the moment to have been and what was the moment really?
电影的制作过程总是伴随这个问题。这个时刻总是充满希望的问题，这一刻有多少痛苦？这里到底发生了什么？我们希望此刻是什么样的时刻？
这部电影也非常诚实的讲述了杰夫的斗争与“波士顿坚强”的标签，当他不觉得自己有实力的时候。
答：The process of the making of the movie was always that question. Always the question of how much is this moment full of hope, how much is this moment painful? What was really happening here? What do we wish the moment to have been and what was the moment really?
电影的制作过程总是伴随这个问题。这个时刻总是充满希望的问题，这一刻有多少痛苦？这里到底发生了什么？我们希望此刻是什么样的时刻？
I accredit that to the primary group of filmmakers, with David Gordon Green being at the head of that, and then Todd Lieberman and Riva Marker producing the movie in that way. The production companies that joined up to make this movie, I think we all approached the movie in that way. I think we struck that balance, always, even as we fought for different scenes that would do that. The scene, for example, of the sutures coming off, and the pain involved, David and I fought for that moment, because we believed in showing the pain of it. And for Todd Lieberman, the reunion with Carlos, who helped Jeff on the day of the bombing, that was a keystone scene for him.
我认为，电影的主要人群，在David Gordon Green的带领下，然后Todd Lieberma和Riva Marker以这种方式制作电影。参与制作这部电影的制片公司，我想我们都是以这种方式接近电影的。我想我们总能找到平衡点，尽管我们为不同的场景而奋斗。比如说，缝线的脱落场景，和涉及到痛苦，戴维和我为那一刻而战斗，因为我们相信它显示出它的痛苦。对Todd Lieberman来说，是和在爆炸当天帮助杰夫的卡洛斯的重聚，对他来说是关键的一幕。
我认为，电影的主要人群，在David Gordon Green的带领下，然后Todd Lieberma和Riva Marker以这种方式制作电影。参与制作这部电影的制片公司，我想我们都是以这种方式接近电影的。我想我们总能找到平衡点，尽管我们为不同的场景而奋斗。比如说，缝线的脱落场景，和涉及到痛苦，戴维和我为那一刻而战斗，因为我们相信它显示出它的痛苦。对Todd Lieberman来说，是和在爆炸当天帮助杰夫的卡洛斯的重聚，对他来说是关键的一幕。
I think the movie balances itself out in that way, and I think it’s because all of us, all of the people involved in telling this story—and I think it’s why Jeff trusted us with it—are a little averse to bullshit, and yet hopeful in the world. David’s trademark is that he makes the process of making a movie so incredibly collaborative, and all of us were focused on not shying away from the harder aspects of Jeff’s journey. You can’t just paint the easier picture.
我认为这部电影以这种方式平衡了自己，我认为这是因为我们所有人，所有参与这个故事的人，我想这就是杰夫为什么信任我们的原因，有点不喜欢扯淡，但在世界上充满希望。戴维的商标是他制作电影的过程是如此的令人难以置信，我们所有的人都专注于不回避杰夫的旅程中更困难的部分。你不能画出更简单的图。
我认为这部电影以这种方式平衡了自己，我认为这是因为我们所有人，所有参与这个故事的人，我想这就是杰夫为什么信任我们的原因，有点不喜欢扯淡，但在世界上充满希望。戴维的商标是他制作电影的过程是如此的令人难以置信，我们所有的人都专注于不回避杰夫的旅程中更困难的部分。你不能画出更简单的图。
describes filmmaking as alchemy—that filmmakers are charlatans and frauds essentially trying to magic an audience connection out of the mix that they make.
Luca Guadagnino称电影制作是一种魔力，电影制作人是骗子，而实际上是在试图让观众从他们的组合中获得联系
答：That’s why I’m working with Luca. We both know we’re charlatans and frauds. I’ve known him for a long time—almost a decade now. Over that decade we’ve been trying to work together, and I think I had to evolve my thinking a bit, into a place where I start to realize that filmmaking is truly about relationships. It’s taken me a couple of films to realize that the only way to do work that you’re proud of is when you have true intimacy with a filmmaker. I didn’t necessarily know that when we first met. His process, like mine, is very intimate and starts very early on. I always say I need a long runway.
这就是为什么我和卢卡一起工作的原因。我们都知道我们是江湖骗子。我认识他已经差不多十年了。在过去的十年里，我们一直在努力合作，我想我必须把我的想法发展到一个地方，我开始意识到电影制作确实是关于关系的。我拍了几部电影才意识到，唯一能让你引以为傲的工作的方法是当你和一个电影导演真正亲密合作的时候。我不一定知道我们第一次见面的时候。他的过程和我的一样，非常亲密，很早就开始了。我总是说我需要一条长长的跑道。
Luca Guadagnino称电影制作是一种魔力，电影制作人是骗子，而实际上是在试图让观众从他们的组合中获得联系
答：That’s why I’m working with Luca. We both know we’re charlatans and frauds. I’ve known him for a long time—almost a decade now. Over that decade we’ve been trying to work together, and I think I had to evolve my thinking a bit, into a place where I start to realize that filmmaking is truly about relationships. It’s taken me a couple of films to realize that the only way to do work that you’re proud of is when you have true intimacy with a filmmaker. I didn’t necessarily know that when we first met. His process, like mine, is very intimate and starts very early on. I always say I need a long runway.
这就是为什么我和卢卡一起工作的原因。我们都知道我们是江湖骗子。我认识他已经差不多十年了。在过去的十年里，我们一直在努力合作，我想我必须把我的想法发展到一个地方，我开始意识到电影制作确实是关于关系的。我拍了几部电影才意识到，唯一能让你引以为傲的工作的方法是当你和一个电影导演真正亲密合作的时候。我不一定知道我们第一次见面的时候。他的过程和我的一样，非常亲密，很早就开始了。我总是说我需要一条长长的跑道。
To speak to what Luca said—and what Ang Lee said when I gave him an award a couple of years ago, he said, “we pretend to get closer to the truth”—I think those things are true, and it was something I had a hard time reconciling, particularly with this film. You are always aware that you’re creating a result. It’s not like being in a relationship, because in a relationship you’re not thinking of result, you’re connecting. On a film, you always know there’s a product to be made. That product will be seen and judged, and hopefully, it will move people. But I think a lot of what you’re doing is manipulating reality and manipulating the truth in order to find another way to the truth. I’ve heard filmmakers refer to films as their children…
在几年前我给他颁奖时，我说一下卢卡说了什么和李安说了什么，他说：“我们假装更接近真相”——我认为这些事情是真实的，我很难调和，尤其是这部电影。你总是意识到你在创造一个结果。这不像是在一段关系中，因为在一段感情中你不考虑结果，你在关联。在电影中，你总是知道有一种作品要制作。该作品将被看到和判断，并希望它会打动人们。但我认为你所做的很多事情是操纵现实和操纵真相，以便找到另一条通往真理的道路。我听说电影制作人把电影当作他们的孩子…
在几年前我给他颁奖时，我说一下卢卡说了什么和李安说了什么，他说：“我们假装更接近真相”——我认为这些事情是真实的，我很难调和，尤其是这部电影。你总是意识到你在创造一个结果。这不像是在一段关系中，因为在一段感情中你不考虑结果，你在关联。在电影中，你总是知道有一种作品要制作。该作品将被看到和判断，并希望它会打动人们。但我认为你所做的很多事情是操纵现实和操纵真相，以便找到另一条通往真理的道路。我听说电影制作人把电影当作他们的孩子…
不感兴趣
开通SVIP免广告
Name was a child out in the world now and it was out of his hands.
卢卡字面上说《请以你的名字呼唤我》现在是世界上的一个孩子，已经不在他的掌控之中了。
答：Right. I mean, I worked with Steven Sondheim, and when I realized he didn’t have children was when I realized his pieces were his children. In the show I did, Sundays in the Park, the last song is an exaltation to art and to creation; these children he has created. The experience of creating something and then sending it out into the world, they do bear a similarity. I speak from very little experience of having children, of course.
正确的.我的意思是，我曾与Steven Sondheim，当我意识到他没有孩子时，是当我意识到他的作品是他的孩子。在我的演出中，《星期天在公园里》，最后一首歌是对艺术和创作的升华；这些孩子是他创造的。创造某物的经验，然后把它发送到世界，他们确实有相似之处。当然，我讲的很少有孩子的经历。
卢卡字面上说《请以你的名字呼唤我》现在是世界上的一个孩子，已经不在他的掌控之中了。
答：Right. I mean, I worked with Steven Sondheim, and when I realized he didn’t have children was when I realized his pieces were his children. In the show I did, Sundays in the Park, the last song is an exaltation to art and to creation; these children he has created. The experience of creating something and then sending it out into the world, they do bear a similarity. I speak from very little experience of having children, of course.
正确的.我的意思是，我曾与Steven Sondheim，当我意识到他没有孩子时，是当我意识到他的作品是他的孩子。在我的演出中，《星期天在公园里》，最后一首歌是对艺术和创作的升华；这些孩子是他创造的。创造某物的经验，然后把它发送到世界，他们确实有相似之处。当然，我讲的很少有孩子的经历。
