【KOP】两个达伦-朱利安的采访

第一个：
Exclusive MJFC Interview With Darren Julien
(7-1-2013) MJFC conducted an exclusive interview with Darren Julien, founder and CEO of the auction house Julien's Auctions, regarding the recent auction of "The Collection Of Tompkins and Bush" and also regarding the controversy surrounding this auction.
Darren, the auction "The Collection of Tompkins & Bush" was probably one of the most spectacular and most publicized auctions in the history of Julien's Auctions. That must have been quite an experience?
Darren Julien: Each of our auctions is special and we certainly do everything we can to give each auction the promotion and publicity it deserves. But, I would agree that, just by nature of the celebrity involved, “The Collection of Tompkins & Bush” was one of the best auctions we have had the privilege of conducting.
One of the most important things we did with this auction was to have a ten-month international exhibition of the highlights from the auction, in Santiago, Chile, Dublin, Ireland, London, England, Tokyo, Japan, and Beverly Hills, California, so that Michael Jackson fans, who otherwise would not have had the opportunity to see these items in person or who would not have been able to travel to visit our gallery for the auction, had the chance to participate in this phenomenal event.
How much time do you have to invest to prepare such an auction?
Darren Julien: The preparation for any auction is a months-long process. With this particular event, because it was such a high profile auction, and because we had such an extensive exhibition tour for the benefit of the fans, it took more than a year to plan and organize.
It made big news that Lady Gaga won 55 items in the auction. Both of you had been involved in the September's fashion show of hat designer Philip Treacy. Did it come as a surprise to you that she participated in the auction or did you know beforehand?
Darren Julien: Lady Gaga is a very smart collector. She did not show her hand to anyone until she was ready to participate in the auction. Even when we became aware, as with all of our collectors, Julien’s Auctions would have kept her participation in the auction confidential but she tweeted about her bidding and winning in the auction, which instantly became world news. We have great respect for her and are honored to have her, among many other celebrities, as a Julien’s client. From personal experience, I can say that not only is she extremely talented, she is also incredibly kind and everyone adores working for and with her. It is great to see someone in her position treat everyone around her with respect.
Do you have any knowledge what Lady Gaga plans to do with the items she purchased? For example will she make them available to the public in an exhibition?
Darren Julien: I am not privy to her plans for the items she purchased. But as an icon herself, I am sure she will treat the items with the respect they deserve.
Can you tell us whether any museums purchased items in the auction that will then be put on public display?


Darren Julien: Unfortunately, due to our confidentiality policy, as noted above, I cannot disclose that information. I can say that a number of high profile museums participated in the auction.
The auction also raised quite some controversy and when we first talked to you about doing this interview you kindly agreed to answer ANY kind of questions we have - no matter how inconvenient/critical they might be - because you said you have nothing to hide.
Some Michael Jackson fans disagree that items of such historical and personal value to them are downgraded to being simply merchandise items that are sold for a lot of money and distributed all over the world. They fear that even the most iconic items, such as the BAD jacket, the LA Gear jacket, the Scream outfit or the gloves, can never be seen by the public again. In their opinion they should rather be preserved and made available to the public in a museum. Can you understand these concerns?
Darren Julien: I can certainly understand the sentiment that the fans have for Michael Jackson memorabilia. I note, however, that it has been reported that a number of the iconic items associated with Michael Jackson are still owned by the Estate of Michael Jackson and I would expect that would be comforting to Michael Jackson’s fans.
Julien’s Auctions offers a service to those who own items of value that the owners wish to sell. We do not counsel the sellers on what to do with their property; we only offer one avenue for making the property available to other who wish to acquire them. It is the owners’ choice what to do with their own property, just as it is every fan’s right to decide what happens to items they own. It is not Julien’s Auctions’ place (or anyone else’s for that matter) to pass judgment on those decisions.
I also disagree that selling memorabilia reduces them to “simple merchandise.” Collectors are people who truly value the items that they are purchasing, not as “merchandise,” but because of their deep love and respect they have for the celebrity, because of the items’ historical significance, and because they wish to preserve and protect the items from being lost in obscurity or being neglected. Many of these collectors loan the items to museums on a regular basis so that others can share in the joy of the items.
I also think it is not realistic for fans to expect that all of a celebrities’ memorabilia can be preserved in one place. It is often the case that celebrities themselves do not keep what would be considered memorabilia. Many of them, in fact, sell their own memorabilia in auctions, and we have been fortunate enough to have handled a large number of such auctions.
There were also questions regarding the authenticity of some of the signatures that were included in the auction. It was even claimed that the signatures rather resembled Michael Bush's own signatures done during his recent book signing tour. Therefore it was claimed that Michael Bush himself - who worked closely with Michael for nearly 25 years and called him his best friend - faked some of the signatures to earn more money. What do you say about these accusations?
Darren Julien: I think these accusations are wildly unfair and utterly without support. As I have stated before, before any Michael Jackson fans put any stock in these false allegations, they should first investigate the credentials, qualifications, background, and history of the persons making the claims.
I would also offer these facts – rather than unsubstantiated innuendo – to the fans to consider. Michael Bush has never once attempted to capitalize on his relationship with Michael Jackson during his lifetime. Michael Bush has avoided all attempts by the media and others to do a “tell all” about Michael Jackson after his death. Michael Bush has never sought the limelight or notoriety, unlike many in Michael Jackson’s circle, because of his relationship with Michael Jackson. The book he authored should be evidence of his integrity and character. He could have chosen to write a tome that disclosed personal and confidential information about Michael Jackson. He did not do that. Instead, he wrote a book that sought to share with Michael Jackson’s fans a part of Michael Jackson that they all know and love – Michael Jackson’s iconic and groundbreaking costumes. Michael Bush sought to show the fans the creative process behind the costumes that were such an integral part of Michael Jackson’s legacy and history.

For the record, the bulk of the auction sales were not for items bearing Michael Jackson’s signature. Rather, they were for the clothes and personal artifacts that Michael Jackson used/wore during his career. Michael Bush did not need to “forge” any signatures for money. Not only is Michael Bush fortunate enough to be in a position where he does not need to create such false income, he had more access to Michael Jackson than almost anyone else.
Finally, the signatures that were in this auction are virtually the same as numerous other Michael Jackson signed items sold in previous auctions, the authenticity of which no one has ever disputed.
On an online blog focusing on autographs (Autograph Magazine Live) some people also voiced concerns about the authenticity of some of the signatures. They are claiming that these signatures differ from Michael's usual signature style. For example it is claimed that there is an additional loop on the "n" in Jackson, a lack of flow of the "J", hesitation marks which would be typical for faking an autograph or that they all look very similar to each other. The signatures in question are even described as "poor quality forgeries"
Darren Julien: First, as I stated above, I would urge the Michael Jackson fan community to look into the credentials and qualifications of the people making these unfounded claims and determine the weight to give to their assertions. I am aware of no expertise that these individuals have in Michael Jackson memorabilia, signature, or handwriting. As far as I am aware, none of these individuals have ever been retained by any of the top auction houses or high profile estates to provide authentication on Michael Jackson memorabilia or signature or have had any dealings with Michael Jackson or his companies, or with anything Michael Jackson related. Other than the individuals themselves, I am aware of no other person or entity who recognizes them as having any qualification to speak on Michael Jackson memorabilia or signatures.
Second, I would note that autographs change over time, over the years, and even during a single signing event. I would find it incredibly surprising, and even shocking, that a celebrity’s signature remained identical over the years, especially someone like Michael Jackson who was in the public eye for decades. I would seriously question the credentials and qualifications of any person who can definitively say that a signature is “not authentic” or “not genuine” based upon a single loop or a slant. To me, I find it more unusual that these items have been widely publicized and have been exhibited for more than ten months and no one ever questioned the authenticity of the items until the eve of the auction. As I noted above, these items have been publicly displayed in exhibitions around the world for ten months and have been featured by many well-regarded and reputable news sources. The first time the issue was raised was a few days prior to the auction.
I note that the issue was raised by two individuals who have managed to magnify their unfounded allegations into an “issue” simply by sheer repetition, and not anything else. To my knowledge, they have no independent confirmation or evidence that any of the signatures are not authentic. The “autograph authentication service” touted by these individuals that calls into question the authenticity of the signatures is, as I am informed, partly owned by one of them.


In addition to confirming the genuineness of the signatures with Michael Bush, I spoke with several people who worked with Michael Jackson and are well familiar with his signatures and items. Their reactions were the same as mine: there is no issue.
This discussion included some "big names" in the autograph business such as Steve Cyrkin (owner of Autograph Magazine Live), Roger Epperson (autograph dealer & authenticator) and Michael Frost (owner of authentication company P.A.A.S) who all make their living from selling and/or authenticating autographs. On the other side Todd Mueller, one of the most prominent and respected signature experts and autograph dealers worldwide, defended the auction and fully supported the authenticity of the items.
For someone who is just a fan/collector but not a signature expert it's hard to judge such "tiny" differences in a signature - especially if one "expert" says an autograph is authentic, the other "expert" says it's "definitely not authentic". So this whole discussion seems pretty confusing. Which "expert" should one trust? Can you please address these accusations?
Darren Julien: As I stated, these individuals – who are the ones who started the “controversy” in the first instance with their unfounded and false allegations on their blogs – have never been retained by any reputable auction house to serve as an “autograph expert” on Michael Jackson signatures. I am aware of nothing in the history of any of these gentlemen in dealing with Michael Jackson memorabilia or signatures. Anyone can call themselves an “expert.”
I would urge the fans to ask these gentlemen for the specific experiences, history, and credentials that qualify them to speak as “experts” on Michael Jackson signatures. How many auction houses have hired them to serve as paid consultants on Michael Jackson signatures? How many Michael Jackson signatures have they authenticated? On whose behalf? How many times have they met Michael Jackson? What history or experiences do they have with Michael Jackson? How many signatures have they seen that were signed by Michael Jackson in their presence? Who, other than themselves, have recognized them as “Michael Jackson signature experts”? How many times have they testified in a case as an “expert” in “Michael Jackson signatures”?

After you receive their answers to these very specific questions, compare them to Laura Woolley, who has definitively concluded that the signatures are authentic and genuine. s. Woolley, from The Collectors Lab, is someone universally considered to be the foremost expert on Michael Jackson memorabilia and signatures. Ms. Woolley has seen and authenticated more Michael Jackson signatures and handwriting than possibly anyone else in the industry. Ms. Woolley has worked with all of the top auction houses when it comes to items of Michael Jackson including Bonham’s, Heritage, and she is regularly consulted and engaged by Sotheby’s and Christies. You can draw your own conclusions as to who you should trust.
To my knowledge it is common basic standard that an expert needs to see a signature in person to judge its authenticity. Did the people who questioned the signature’s authenticity ever take a look at the signatures in person? And did they contact you in person to voice their concerns?
Darren Julien: You are absolutely correct. Cyrkin, Epperson and Frost all say that they reviewed the originals of the items in dispute. This assertion is categorically false. They have never been in possession of any of these items and they have never been to our gallery to see them in person. I can also say that none of these gentlemen have ever contacted me directly at any time to make their false accusations.
Another accusation related to a "Michael Jackson Signed Standee" (lot 749). It was claimed that this standee was not manufactured until after Michael had died. They published an e-mail which they say is from Bravado, the exclusive manufacturer and distributor of merchandise for Michael Jackson, stating that "The standee pictured was manufactured after Mr. Jackson passed away". Can you please comment on this?
Darren Julien: As an initial matter, the authenticity of the standee is not and never should be an issue for discussion. Julien’s Auctions made no warranty as to the authenticity of the standee, artwork and/or identifying marks shown on the standee. Items in our auction may be legitimate or bootleg items of merchandise. We make no representations or warranties regarding the authenticity of the merchandise as being an authorized and licensed Michael Jackson merchandise.
Having said that, it is a well-known fact in the merchandising business that professional bootleggers and counterfeiters acquire designs of authorized and licensed merchandise long before the items are legitimately produced and released. These counterfeiters are then able to get a head start on the market by putting out their illegitimate products long before the launch of the official merchandise and before anyone can determine that their versions are fakes. It is a regular and accepted part of the merchandising game that these counterfeits hit the market long before the official products do. Counterfeiting is a multi-million dollar industry.
Looking at the standee sold in the auction and the “official” standee sold by Bravado, there are clear and distinct deviations. Among other things, Michael Jackson’s face measurements between the two versions are noticeably different; the license plates behind Michael Jackson in the two versions are wholly different; and the shoes worn by Michael Jackson in the two standees appear to be different. Based on these comparisons, it would appear to us that the standee sold in the auction was, in fact, a counterfeit or bootleg that came out before the official version. So, what Mr. Sebacious said (whether accurately stated or misstated by various bloggers and fans) has no bearing on the issue. We do not appear to be dealing with the official Bravado merchandise.


Nonetheless, because the standee appears to be a bootleg, it is not possible to determine with absolute certainty when it was released. At the end of the day, the most important thing to us is our reputation, goodwill, and name, and upholding the trust and faith that our clients have in us. Accordingly, in order to eliminate any concern whatsoever, we have canceled the sale.
If we take a look at the auction's results, among among the 25 items that brought in the most money - totaling to $ 3,237,050 - there is only one single item that was signed. Considering the fact that the auction grossed about $5 million it seems rather illogic to risk your complete reputation by faking signatures on rather low-valued items if the most money was actually made from unsigned items?
Darren Julien: Exactly. We would not risk it nor would Michael Bush. There is no reason to have “forged” signatures for any reason.
Michael Jackson memorabilia currently is one of the highest priced pop memorabilia in the world. Thus, a huge amount of fake items and signatures are being offered worldwide. You are surely being offered a lot of MJ items for consignment. How exactly do you check such items for authenticity? What percentage do you have to reject?
Darren Julien: We have been doing this for a very long time. We have been very fortunate that we have had many Michael Jackson memorabilia offered to us for consignment. As a result, we probably have more experience than most auction houses to be able to tell a real item from a fake item.
We are offered a very large number of “Michael Jackson memorabilia” for consignment on a regular basis. We reject many of these items for a number of reasons, but most particularly if they just do not “look right” or we cannot otherwise authenticate the provenance. We have even rejected items that have been authenticated or sold by Epperson, Cyrkin or Frost because we could not confirm the provenance or they simply did not appear authentic or genuine.
Like any collection, whether they come directly from a celebrity, an estate, or, in this case, someone who was known for having a close relationship with and direct access to the celebrity, we engage in a thorough diligence process to attempt to authenticate the provenance of the auction items. Among other things, if the item was worn for a public event, we will review videos, archival footage, photographs, or other pictorial records of the item and compare them to the item itself. If the item involves a signature or handwriting, we engage in similar comparisons with known samples of the person’s signature and handwriting.
With respect to Michael Jackson, we also have such signatures and handwriting reviewed by Laura Woolley from The Collectors Lab. Finally, as with all auction houses, we rely upon the representations made by the consignors when they consign items to us for sale.
Were the same standards of authenticity check applied to the items offered in "The Collection Of Tompkins & Bush"? Or did you just trust Michael Bush - as it was also claimed?


Darren Julien: We followed our usual due diligence protocol.
Do you have any advice for collectors on how they can make sure that they don`t buy any forgeries?
Darren Julien: Do not rely on any claim of so-called “experts.” It is always best to buy from a reputable auction house or source.
One other reason why MJ fans might have reservations about Julien's Auctions is that back in 2009 MJJ Productions filed a lawsuit against Julien’s Auctions for the return of personal property from the Neverland Ranch. Previously however, Tohme Thome, Michael's manager at the time, had contacted you to “auction off certain property from Neverland that Michael Jackson no longer wanted or needed”. The items were consigned by them to your auction house for the sale.
Although in the end a Los Angeles Superior Court judge ruled the auction could proceed, both sides continued talks to settle the dispute and finally reached a mutual agreement: The auction was canceled and you returned all the items to Michael. Can you please explain what exactly happened?
Darren Julien: Unfortunately, we have a confidentiality agreement with MJJ Productions so we are not able to disclose or discuss any issues relating to this event. We have made previous statements relating to this issue and those statements, along with the various documents filed in the case, tell the full story.
Back then you met Michael in person and talked to him on the phone. What was he like?
Darren Julien: I certainly am not going to claim that I had a close and personal relationship with Michael Jackson, the way that Michael Bush did, but I was fortunate enough to have had a number of discussions with him on the phone. In each of my dealings with him, Michael Jackson was always very kind and had a great sense of humor.
Julien's Auctions has developed into the world's premier auction house for Michael Jackson memorabilia. How did you get started with your business?
RESPONSE: I have worked in auctions my entire life. I moved out to Los Angeles on a contract with Sotheby’s in 1999. I give a lot of credit to our success to both Sotheby’s and Christie’s as we have had a good working relationship with both organizations. Even though they are sometimes competitors, I have great respect for them. I don’t ever want to forget where I came from so I will always be indebted to both auction houses for our success.
Michael surely has become very important for you businesswise. But what does he mean to you personally?
Darren Julien: I would certainly agree that Michael Jackson has been an important part of our auction house’s history. I grew up loving his music. I never thought when I was a teenager that I would someday be associated with one of the greatest entertainers in the world. I consider myself extremely lucky.
Can you already say whether there are plans for more MJ related auctions in the near future?
Darren Julien: Yes, we will have other Michael Jackson items in our annual “Music Icons” and “Icons & Idols” auctions.
Exclusive MJFC Interview With Darren Julien

第一个采访的链接：http://www.mjfanclub.net/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5780%3Aexclusive-mjfc-interview-with-darren-julien&catid=85%3Alatest-news&Itemid=82
第二个采访不贴了，也非常长，链接是：http://www.mjjcollectors.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=292%3Adarren-julien-exclusive-interview-with-mjjcollectorscom&catid=53%3Aspecial-promotions&Itemid=