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【神话】俄狄浦斯式母子

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Holly Blackford在《少女奇幻文学中的珀耳塞福涅神话》里说金妮是魂片汤姆象征意义上的母亲,密室是象征意义上的子宫(入口在女盥洗室,有管道连接,潮湿,阴暗)。魂片汤姆借助金妮这个(他认同的纯血女巫)母亲得以在“染血之室”里诞生且成为实体。


IP属地:山东1楼2026-04-04 02:32回复
    于是黑魔王和救世主都有一个红发母亲。结合奥尔罕·帕慕克写弑父传说的《红发女人》这本书来看更有意思了。
    汤里德是俄狄浦斯,是永恒的儿子。
    我想象里的俄狄浦斯式人物趴在他母亲形象(mother figure)之人的膝头,从下向上,用罪孽与赎罪、儿子与情人、崇敬又亵渎、纯真又难以捉摸的眼神看着另一个人。


    IP属地:山东2楼2026-04-04 02:32
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      2026-04-25 05:55:13
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      这本书关于液体的“理论”来自朱丽娅·克里斯特娃(Julia Kristeva)的《恐怖的权力:论卑贱》(英文译名:Powers of Horror: An Essay on Abjection)。
      不说这一点可能会有人觉得提及液体的部分莫名其妙。

      节选了几个片段,不看全文的话可能会觉得缺少论证过程,但是又无法把全文都贴上来。


      IP属地:山东3楼2026-04-04 02:33
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        The Myth of Persephone in Girls' Fantasy Literature
        Chapter Seven: The Riddle of Féminine Écriture in J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
        时间:2012
        作者:Holly Virginia Blackford

        Page 184
        The association of the underground chamber with diary-writing and voice, strong conveyances of female traditions, is strengthened by the novel’s obvious correspondence with Genesis and with the Medusa myth, as observed by Michelle Yeo. We can also compare Ginny’s story with Half-Blood Prince, in which Harry himself encounters the risks of an old potions textbook; although the oral knowledge inscribed in the margins of his book comes close to murder, the association is hardly sexual. Unlike the near-rape of Ginny implied in the imagery of penetration, pregnancy, and birth at the end of Chamber of Secrets, Harry’s use of Snape’s old potions book advances his school career and allows a communication device with a male mentor from whom Harry has much to learn.

        Page 187
        …Not only are Ginny and Myrtle similarly teased, but also Ginny has unleashed a flood on the entire school with her féminine écriture. Taken together, the moaning of Ginny and Myrtle suggests female composition of tears, blood, and abject fluids of the toilet, which French feminist Kristeva associates with the abject body of the female and with a semiotic communication system that erupts or overflows into official sign-referent meaning systems (the symbolic order).
        金妮和桃金娘的哭泣声音合在一起,暗示了女性的眼泪、鲜血、厕所里的卑污液体。法国女性主义者克里斯特娃将以下二者联系起来:女性身体的“卑污”,符号学交流系统爆发或溢出进入“符号-指称”意义系统(象征秩序)。

        Page 188
        These unclean fluids are linked to the amniotic fluids of birth. While it would seem that Ginny’s blood is pure and her virginal status precisely what Tom needs—his point of view is not accepted and it is his ink that stains. Not only is the nearly unconscious, exhausted Ginny giving birth to Tom Riddle in the bloody chamber, when we learn that she has been pregnant (so to speak) but “not showing” for some time, but also birth imagery recurs on the surface. When Harry and Ron emerge with Ginny and find Mrs. Weasley by the domestic fireside, “[f]or a moment there was silence as Harry, Ron, Ginny, and Lockhart stood in the doorway, covered in muck and slime and (in Harry’s case) blood. Then there was a scream” (327). This birth is Ginny’s rebirth; her mother screams and names her “Ginny!” The striking aspect of this naming, however, is the way it reinvokes the mythic elements of order arising from chaos—birth from a woman’s moans into the civilized fireside, blessings conferred upon civilized order.
        这些不洁的液体可以联系到分娩时的羊水。金妮是纯血统,她的处女身份正是汤姆所需要的……我们得知,金妮已经怀孕(可以这么说)有一段时间而且“没有表现出来”。最后,几近昏迷、精疲力竭的金妮在染血之室里生下了汤姆·里德尔。
        (我翻译得不好)

        Page 194
        Harry stabs the diary and enjoys a similar spurting: “Ink spurted out of the diary in torrents, streaming over Harry’s hands, flooding the floor” (322). After this abbreviated violence, Ginny awakes with a “faint moan” and they return to the “wet floor of Moaning Myrtle’s bathroom” covered in blood and slime. The parallel imagery of the tidal waves of ink, blood, and Myrtle’s moaning wetness suggests a common hostility toward the female body and an intensely misogynist desire to penetrate and kill the disembodied voice, if interpreted as expressing female desire. We know that the chamber hosts a monster that periodically sheds its skin (303), like the female body sheds its uterine lining, and thus the initiation of blood and concern with the purity of blood make sense as a rendition of menarche. It would make sense that Tom Riddle would seek a pure-blood witch who is menstruating but still virginal, the perfect chamber for his gestation, because he needs to rebirth himself as a pure blood. For Tom, the pure blood would be his maternal lineage, reclaimed and strengthened through the pure Ginny. Tom voices his disgust for his background and Harry’s Mudblood mother, suggesting the chamber as a vehicle for purifying an heir, Ginny’s body a means to do so.
        我们知道,密室里住着一个周期性蜕皮的怪物,就像女性身体会周期性脱落子宫内膜,因此,血液的初现和对血统纯度的关注作为月经初潮的隐喻展现便显得合理了。汤姆·里德尔会找一个已经月经初潮但仍然是处女的纯血统女巫,将她作为他受孕的完美密室,因为他需要将自己重生为纯血统。对汤姆而言,他的母系血统是纯血统,借助纯血统的金妮得以恢复并加强。汤姆表达了对自己血统的厌恶、对哈利的麻瓜出身母亲的厌恶,这表明密室是净化继承人的工具,金妮的身体是实现目标的途径。

        Page 194
        This interpretation is not complete, but it allows us to understand aspects of the birth imagery in the chamber.

        Page 194
        The entire chamber becomes a womb as Ginny lies inert and the “boy” inside grows stronger. The gestation, however, is incomplete without Harry, whom Tom Riddle has most wanted to meet all along. While Ginny faces a sinister maternity as punishment for desire, descent into the chamber allows both Tom and Harry to revisit the body of the mother. As Mills argues, “[t]he abject horror felt by the boys towards Myrtle is the obverse of Harry’s fascination with his mother’s body in the first book” (7). Chamber of Secrets equates birth with monstrosity.


        IP属地:山东4楼2026-04-04 02:33
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          HP wiki: House of Gaunt 词条编写者也认为Merope和Ginevra之间有一些对应细节。
          (注:HP wiki 不是 official website,只是一个资料整合网站。HP wiki:House of Gaunt 页面的解释是百科编辑者编写的,不代表HP作者的观点。)



          House of Gaunt
          In Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, in Bob Ogden's memory, Merope Gaunt is shown as pining for Tom Riddle Senior, who rides his horse, sometimes alongside Cecilia, past the Gaunt Shack every day.
          在《哈利·波特与混血王子》中,在鲍勃·奥格登的记忆中,梅洛普·冈特思慕老汤姆·里德尔,老汤姆每天骑马经过冈特老宅。
          Likewise, Ginny Weasley, who is possessed by Gaunt descendant Tom Marvolo Riddle (Lord Voldemort) in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, has a Patronus of a "silvery-white" horse, and her wand is of the same wood, yew, as Tom Riddle's wand.
          同样,在《哈利·波特与密室》中,金妮·韦斯莱被冈特后裔汤姆·马沃罗·里德尔(伏地魔)附身,她的守护神是一匹“银白色”的马,她的魔杖和汤姆·里德尔的魔杖是同一种木材——紫杉。


          IP属地:山东5楼2026-04-04 02:36
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            Merope:七仙女星,贫穷的纯血家族女巫,小汉格顿墓地的紫杉树,老汤姆骑马经过,母亲。
            Ginevra:第七子,贫穷的纯血家族女巫,紫杉木魔杖,马形守护神,象征意义上的母亲。

            改编自《众神的星空》306-307页:
            在希腊神话里,七仙女星普勒阿得斯(Pleiades)有七颗星,其中有一个星体较暗,有时即使在晴朗的夜空都观测不到,人们将这颗消失的星称为消失的仙女星(Lost Pleiades)。据说这位消失的仙女星乃是七姐妹中的Merope,因为她是仙女中唯一一个和凡人结婚的。Voldemort 的母亲是巫师家族的 Merope Gaunt,父亲是不懂魔法的麻瓜。


            IP属地:山东6楼2026-04-04 02:40
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              原初的欲望
              俄狄浦斯式儿子的欲望是原初的禁忌,是“重返母体,回到与母亲合一的神话状态”。
              如果用精神分析来解读,汤姆对纯血秩序的追求就是原初的欲望、想要回归母体的欲望(Merope是纯血女巫),是原罪,也是原乐。
              《雅克·拉康:阅读你的症状》692页
              在精神分析学的神话性叙事中,主体的欲望的最原初形式——那其实也是一种需要——是隐喻意义上的乱/伦欲望,是(前)主体对母亲的欲望,欲望重返母体,回到与母亲合一的神话状态。但由于父亲角色的介入,由于父之名或父亲的“不”的功能,主体对母亲的欲望受到压抑,主体通过认同父之名、认同菲勒斯功能而使自己原初的乱/伦欲望得以人化,主体成为真正的欲望主体,其原初的欲望对象(母亲)因这一象征性的阉割而成为一种不可能之物,成为永久失落的对象,从这个意义上说,主体的欲望乃是存在之欠缺的欲望,而这一存在之欠缺乃是他者的阉割所造成的。这是“人的欲望就是他者的欲望”的一个基本含义,它表明理解人的欲望必须以存在的根本性欠缺为参照。


              IP属地:山东来自Android客户端7楼2026-04-07 06:18
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                我最喜欢的产品可能就是俄狄浦斯式母子。禁忌中的禁忌,原初的禁忌。
                弑父娶母,杀/欲和色/欲,死欲和爱欲,人类最原始的两种欲望。暴力美学,混乱邪恶。


                IP属地:山东来自Android客户端8楼2026-04-07 06:19
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                  2026-04-25 05:49:13
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                  Merope:七仙女星,贫穷的纯血家族女巫,小汉格顿墓地的紫杉树,老汤姆骑马经过窗外。
                  Ginevra:第七子,贫穷的纯血家族女巫,紫杉木魔杖,马形守护神。
                  如果延续《阁楼上的疯女人》和《少女奇幻文学中的珀耳塞福涅神话》的诠释脉络,马在Merope和Ginevra的生命中,都是一种“逃离父/权”的象征。
                  (求求别说这是扯,《阁楼上的疯女人》这本书表达的就是反父/权。《少女奇幻文学中的珀耳塞福涅神话》是它的“续作”,其中有一章写《密室》。)


                  IP属地:山东9楼2026-04-07 22:19
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                    Merope:
                    冈特家是典型的父/权家庭,原著说:“她受到父亲的高压恐怖统治时,她的魔法力量似乎不能完全发挥出来”。
                    Merope承担了全部做饭的家务。“马沃罗从阿兹卡班回来时,本以为会看到女儿乖乖地等着他,桌上摆着热气腾腾的饭菜”。“女儿弃家出走给他带来的震惊,大概是他过早去世的一个原因——或者,他大概一直没有学会怎么弄饭给自己吃”。
                    Merope在父/权家庭中看向窗外骑马经过的老汤姆,马寄托了逃离的渴望。
                    Merope和麻瓜私奔,也是对冈特父子“纯血至上、巫师至上”观念的背叛。
                    (我先说了我并不是支持她用魔法手段诱拐老汤姆的做法)


                    IP属地:山东10楼2026-04-07 22:22
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                      巧合的是,在 HP wiki:House of Gaunt 页面的插图里,Merope是压抑的家庭氛围中唯一一个格格不入的人,低头若有所思地看着窗外骑马经过的老汤姆。看向窗外是一种渴望逃离的意象。



                      IP属地:山东11楼2026-04-07 22:24
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                        IP属地:山东13楼2026-04-07 22:26
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                          《阁楼上的疯女人:女性作家与19世纪文学想象》
                          她幻想自己可以像撒旦那样飞翔,从伊甸园以及它的种种压迫中逃离:“飞升到了云中……可以俯瞰广阔的大地,气象万千……”
                          让我们想起了弗吉尼亚·伍尔夫有关女性从敞开的窗户中向外眺望的想象。
                          以飞翔的方式逃跑的女性之梦究竟是来自于弥尔顿或浪漫主义的观念,还是来自于某些女性的集体无意识,至今依然还是一个难以回答的问题。因为在撒旦、浪漫主义以及隐蔽的或者刚刚萌芽的女性主义之间的联系实在是错综复杂的和难于考察的。

                          《阁楼上的疯女人:女性作家与19世纪文学想象》
                          《呼啸山庄》中的窗户始终代表了通往可能性的出口……洛克乌德是在窗台上发现了凯瑟琳曾经入迷地刻下的不同名字的,好像当时这位少女正在苦苦地犹豫着,究竟让她身体中的哪一个自我留在窗户之内,或者在顺着旁边的松树的树枝逃走之后、究竟向哪个方向飞去。


                          IP属地:山东14楼2026-04-07 22:27
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                            Ginevra:
                            父/权制婚姻是女方改夫姓、孩子随父姓。詹姆和哈利的牡鹿守护神是一种父子传承。
                            Ginevra的守护神不是牝鹿,而是马,可以说这是因为她无意识里并不认同父/权婚姻制、也不认同冠夫姓。这是文本内部的一种反抗。
                            马形守护神寄托了逃离且自由的渴望。
                            另一个紫杉木魔杖持有者汤姆,背负了五重弑父象征:土星、俄狄浦斯、敌基督者、麦克白、亲生父亲。


                            IP属地:山东15楼2026-04-07 22:28
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